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jeans vs Kathaluku mariyadai

Topic started by junior (@ 194.170.2.30) on Thu Aug 20 08:59:22 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

these are the best albums of 98. forget about the men who made these albums. just argue about the songs and tell me which is no 1 of the year

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: kiruba (@ slipper.watcom.on.ca) on: Sun Aug 23 18:57:44 EDT 1998
  
  I object to treating 'dappanguththu' songs with an attitude. Its the kind of music our people (atleast mine :-)) enjoy. I liked the 'Iya veedu' song very much. Its got music content too guys !!
  
  
• From: PURI (@ 202.54.33.57) on: Mon Aug 24 04:39:41 EDT 1998
  
  HI
  I THINK ARR WILL GET THE BEST MD AWARD FOR "ADHISAYAM" SONG IN "JEANS"
  I DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT KM.
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Mon Aug 24 06:40:44 EDT 1998
  
  venus: My point about 'Pattan Poochi' is that he's not only used the same Ragam as 'Innum Ennai', but it sounds very similar throughout, unlike 'O mere Sonare' for Vaari En Thozli, where it's only the first few words that sound the same.....Also, I was making a point to the person who said that 'Oru Pattan poochi' - excellent song as it is, was a completely NEW sounding song.....
  
  As I said, my sentiments matched Udhaya's and Varai En Thozi didn't score high there......
  
  Also, the comments about 'bits and pieces' of Rahman's songs sounding the same, it may be true, but then so do many of IR's. I made some comparisons to a song in Poonthottam, which was ignored by all IR fans.....
  
  
• From: vetti (@ horus.erlm.siemens.de) on: Mon Aug 24 08:17:18 EDT 1998
  
  bhooooooooooooowwwwwwwww....
  I guess, this thread is present here due to the sole fact that no exciting things are happening in TFM, right at this moment! Looks like, its a usual time pass, but favorite, thread: A indirect ARR Vs IR war!!
  
  Udhaya, Srikanth/Srinath:
  
  By the way, following termoninolgies were very well explained by you guys I guess! Can somebody please tell me the thread name atleast:
  
  1. Chord progression
  2. Swara bEtham
  3. Techno songs
  4. Counter pointing
  
  .
  .
  .
  
  [Sorry for the digression & my apologies for the same!]
  
  
• From: IRfan (@ gw4.awo.com) on: Mon Aug 24 10:12:18 EDT 1998
  
  Geetha:
  I heard the song "ennai innum enna seyya " from Singaravelan and sorry to say that it did not sound like "Oru pattaam poochchi" to me. FYI, IMHO(in quotes) "Pattaam poochchi" is still a NEW tune with EXCELLENT INTERLUDES.
  
  
• From: IRfan (@ gw4.awo.com) on: Mon Aug 24 10:42:12 EDT 1998
  
  Geetha:
  To add to my comments that I made earlier, of course some of IR's compositions are found to be repeated, but people find it hard to be believe that it was played before . The song (so called repetitive) sounds so unique and NEW. That is the magic that IR does. In one of his Live concerts he himself has admitted that nothing is NEW and every song is contained in just 7 notes. In fact, he said that when he worked with MSV for "mella thirandhadhu kadhavu" he had requested MSV to compose a song with the same tune as "vaan meedhile vanna then mari peyyuddhe" which is an old song composed by MSV himself. And that remake is "vaa vennila unnai thane vaanam thedudhe". When he compared the two songs it sounded so together! But "vaa vennila" was a hit in TN. Wow, Hats off to MSV. We are proud to have such great MDs in TFM. And also "vaa vennila" does not remind you of any old song. So, what I would like to conclude is that if an MD is highly talented he can make an old song sound FRESH and NEW. BTW, I am not going to continue discussing on these lines as it is a digression from this topic. Thanks. If you want to continue please email.
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 207.122.201.66) on: Mon Aug 24 10:46:21 EDT 1998
  
  
  Clarification for Gita and others:
  
  The Inuum enna and oru patham puchi – comes in the scale of Thilang , kedaram , Vahidiswari.
  Basically: - sa (g1) ga2 ma1 pa ne1 (ne2) sa…
  In fact the violin pieces in patam puchi is similar to few scores in how to name it (the old cd of HTNI does not have these tracks)..If the songs sound the same due to the ragam does not matter,
  
  In patampuchi , the drum track in the pallavi is very weak, raja should have banged more drum patterns.
  The Violin interludes in the BGM are awesome – great work by raja.
  
  Srikanth
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Mon Aug 24 12:41:37 EDT 1998
  
  Srikanth: Thanks for that, as I said before, 'Innum Ennai' and 'Oru Pattan' have similarities, as, when I heard the Pattan poochi song in the film, I immediately related it to Innum Ennai.....both sounding like having the Kambeera Nattai/Thilang/Kedharam touch to them.....
  
  Irfan: I too saw the programme about MSV and IR when they created 'Vaa vennila' and how they derived it from 'Vaan Meethile', and I agree that they sound different(I think Vaan Meethile was in Pure Kalyani, while Vaa Vennila was in Yamuna K), however, in the cases of 'Oru Pattan poochi', I cannot agree with your comments about it being new and fresh.....This maybe due to my taste. I really "liked" the song 'Pattan poochi', but everytime I hear it, I remember 'Innum Ennai' which I absolutely "loved"....As Srikanth said(I think), it's not just the Raga which brings similarities, but also the Tala structure.....
  
  MPR: Yes, please do take a listen, many people I've mentioned it to have noticed this.....Also, is the 'Viliyil' son you mentioned the same as 'Oh baby baby', with the JUNGLE music added to make it sound modern?
  
  
• From: GOPINATH S. (@ 208.237.16.10) on: Mon Aug 24 17:31:19 EDT 1998
  
  YEN INIYA TAMIZH MAAKHALEY!!!
  
  NAATTULA.....
  
  ALASARTHUKKU URUPPADIYAANA
  NIRAYYAA NALLA VISHAYANGAL IRUKKU.
  
  VERA POZHAPPU IRUNDHA PAARUNGA...
  
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Mon Aug 24 17:34:32 EDT 1998
  
  Gopinath S., if you have so much pozhappu kindly take your arrogant attitude elsewhere.
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-21.il.us.ibm.net) on: Mon Aug 24 18:07:54 EDT 1998
  
  gopinath,
  Naatla nalla vizsheyam : tell me atleast 5.
  
  Discussing music is better than discussing about Jayalathi and the gang, Cauvery water, jaathi kalavaram, etc...etc etc.... If you think discussing about those issues will make you smart - be with that and do not peep this side.
  
  Srikanth
  
  
  
  
• From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.135.224) on: Mon Aug 24 22:15:36 EDT 1998
  
  Srikanth,
  The Inuum enna and oru patham puchi – comes in the scale of Thilang , kedaram , Vahidiswari.
  
  Sorry, I didn't understand what you are trying to say. These three ragas are miles apart, IMO.
  
  I think the two songs are based on different ragas (jog ; thilang).
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Tue Aug 25 06:32:59 EDT 1998
  
  Rajaraman: About Srikanth's Ragas of 'Pattan Poochi' and 'Innum Ennai', I feel the same, as they both have the Kambeera Nattai/Thilang/Jog/Kedharam touches to them, but as the Two Ga's and Two Ni's appear, it's hard to clarify the exact Ragam. I first thought that 'Innum Ennai' was in Thilang, then Kambeera Nattai....There are even some toughes of Bahudhari in some of the gamakas in Innum Ennai.....I don't know about Vaidiswari, but the others all have the ability to sound similar......Jog is a Hindustani equivalent of Thilang, I believe. Thilang, Kambeera Nattai and Kedharam also can sound very similar, except for Paryogams, but these aren't followed in Film songs, unlike the rigid structures in Carnatic Music. It's like Narumughaiye/Manam Virumbuthe, where there is a 'Kalakam' of Ragas.
  
  
• From: Rajesh (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Tue Aug 25 07:16:35 EDT 1998
  
  KM is miles above jeans,iyya.
  
  Technicalities apart, the feeling that KM evokes is obviously pleasanter.
  Ofcourse, jeans being a 'trash' movie might have contributed to it. But why compare 'enaai thalatta' and 'athisayam'?
  The latter is just a 'pugazh malai' on Aish's beauty while 'ETV' evokes amuch deeper emotion.
  
  ARR fans ,come up with some of his better scores to compare with such a beautiful score as KM. jeans was just commercial nonsense ,except for
  'kannodu'.
  Jeans loses deposit against KM, i would conclude.
  
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-56.il.us.ibm.net) on: Tue Aug 25 08:30:34 EDT 1998
  
  Hi,
  Rajaram:
  Thilang, Kedram, Vahidiswari have common swaras,
  thilang:sa ga ma pa n1 n2 sa -
  eg1:Nalathor venai in Varumaiin neeram sivapu
  eh2:unai ondu katean
  Kedaram:sa ga ma pa ne sa - Pon malai pozuthu
  Vahidiswari: sa ga1 ga2 ma pa ne1 ne2
  Panivizum malarvanam (this has little naatai)
  I meant all of them has common note formation.
  
  As geetha says Inum eanai has some gambeera naatai in it.
  Patam puchi has vahidiswari, Thilang in it.
  since common notes are found in both the song we are able to feel many ragas, that is great thing about light music, you need not sit on 1 raga for a song.
  Beatwise they are in same meter meaning tempo.
  But drum patterns used are different.
  Enum had more complicated drum programing.
  
  By the way
  Jeans : Not much of counter point in any of the song. But ARR does wonders without much of counter pointing.
  
  
  Srikanth
  
  
• From: MPR (@ hindsight.nodak.edu) on: Tue Aug 25 12:28:23 EDT 1998
  
  Geetha:
  
  Sorry, I was searching for 'innum ennai'
  cassette yesterday and couldn't find it.
  I will write after I find it and listem to them.
  Yes, 'vizhiyil vizhi' song is nothing but 'Oh
  baby bady'. I should have written 'Oh baby baby',
  but I am so obsessed with the starting
  lines of that song and they are the one keep on
  coming to my mind :-)
  
  When comparing 'innum' and 'oru pattAm' as a
  common listener without knowing any technical
  details, I found only these differences in
  them.
  
  'innum' - drum beat almost throughout the song
  doesn't vary much and it's a fast song compared
  to 'oru pattAm'.
  
  'oru pattAm' - beat changes like anything and
  the flow goes up and down.
  
  I'm just amazed with the way Ilaiyaraaja composed
  this 'oru pattAm' song. IMO, he has done very
  innovative and complex orchestration in recent
  times in this song. And believe me, I was addicted
  to this song verymuch. I think it is better than
  'ennai thAlatta varuvAlO' if you consider just
  orchestration.
  
  
  
• From: kiruba (@ slipper.watcom.on.ca) on: Tue Aug 25 19:09:56 EDT 1998
  
  MPR,
  I am a 'common listener' too. I am also of the opinion that for musical content 'pattaam poochi' song is better than 'ennai thalata..".
  Since I am not well versed in the technicalities I cannot put my fingers on anything specific. but surely agree with the 'complex orchestration' description.
  
  Yes, the surely does sound like 'innum ennai'. I realise this after you guys told me. But it does not matter. The song as you say is innovative and a good number.
  
  Srikanth, does not seem to like the drums in it. I will have to listen to it again. I do think IR should get a little bit bolder in the recording. Most instruments are way too snuffed out. I am not sure whether people really heard the bass guitar in this song.
  
  

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