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Perfection in re-recording. Will TFM MDs reach international Standards ?

Topic started by Jee (@ 193.188.124.233) on Mon Nov 15 07:52:00 EST 1999.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Will our MD's re-recording quality meet today's advanced sound systems like DTS, Dolby etc. ? I even see ARR not using full power of DTS (Eg. Indian). But MSV Murali's "Karuppu Roja" was extremely good in DTS sound system. Any comments ?

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Responses:

• From: S (@ netcache32.mot.com) on: Mon Nov 15 10:22:54 EST 1999
  
  I thot Housefull's BGM was pretty decent....
  
  
• From: Jee (@ 193.188.124.233) on: Tue Nov 16 02:49:16 EST 1999
  
  How about Avatharam ? I think it is in DTS.
  
  
• From: S (@ netcache32.mot.com) on: Tue Nov 16 03:28:23 EST 1999
  
  Jee,
  
  dEvadhai was in DTS and not avathAram. kAlApAni also had a a good BGM in DTS...
  
  
• From: Jee (@ 193.188.124.233) on: Tue Nov 16 05:39:44 EST 1999
  
  Can anybody list out, tamil films with DTS music ?
  I think the list is too short. IMO, TFM MDs are not too much technical & not bothered about the latest technology. In Hollywood, around 90% of movies are in DTS & Dolby system. But in Tamil ? OK even take Indian movies, how many movies are in DTS or Dolby ?
  
  
• From: RAnanthanarayan (@ 202.9.149.240) on: Tue Nov 16 06:06:37 EST 1999
  
  Hi
  
  These are some films to my knowledge recorded in DTS/Dolby( IR films )
  
  Kaalapaani
  Mahanadhi
  MyDearKuttichathan(Latest version)
  KaathalKavithai
  
  There are few things to consider before complaining that our MDs are not upto the latest tech standard and all other nonsense that some of you have written.
  
  FIrst is the cost of recording in a DTS/Dolby mode compared to the normal way where the RR music is recorded on a sound film. Whether all producers can afford that. Now a days, some times, what they do is record in a normal mode and then covert the same to DTS/Dolby. But then it won't be like an orginal DTS recording.
  
  Second and more important point is, how many theatres in TN are equipped with these facilities. You can not judge based on your frequent outings in Madras city theatres.
  
  Of course, the process of converting the theatres to these kind of latest tech sound systems has just begun. And it will take some time.
  
  Jee, I don't know where are you based now. But don't just blame the MDs without understanding the gound realities.
  
  And DTS/Dolby kind of recording is some thing highly technical like a song recording with 24/48 track system. So unless you have big orchestra with a lot of live instruments, you won't be able to feel it.
  
  To do your normal stuff with electronics and some lone live instruments like a flute or some thing, these systems are not needed and you won't feel it also.
  
  RA
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Jee (@ 193.188.124.233) on: Tue Nov 16 07:25:22 EST 1999
  
  Then why only ARR is taking pain for re-recording ? Now, kamal's Marudhanayagam also getting re-recorded with latest system only. For that, some theatres sound systems are modified (upgraded).
  
  I still remember. When kuruthip punal released, some theatres were modified to suit the Dolby system.
  
  Is it that, everytime kamal should take initiative ? What about others ?
  
  
• From: RAnanthanarayan (@ bay-67.pppmad.vsnl.net.in) on: Tue Nov 16 09:51:39 EST 1999
  
  Jee
  
  I agree that ARR's efforts in keeping a high quality standards in recording is appreciable. His is some thing of a bench mark
  in Indian film industry. But finally what should matter is the quality of the composition. Not the technology per se. Still we find
  the kind of music IR made with just an 8 track sound recorder for his songs till the mid 80s is one of his best compositional
  phase. So with out much in the quality of music, there is nothing much to discuss about the quality of its recording. Don't take
  Kamal as an example. Except a personal satisfaction that his film was the first one in Tamil to have DTS for RR, I don't think he
  achieved anything else by that. Given the quality of RR music that Mahesh provided in that film, this is what I can say. Just for
  the heck of it you do some thing, then you don't expect every Tom, Dck and Hary to do that.
  
  RA
  
  
• From: karthik vazhkudai (@ 207.78.88.252) on: Tue Nov 16 11:54:37 EST 1999
  
  I think the first DTS moie in tamil was "karuppu roja".
  
  
• From: pg (@ gate02.merck-medco.com) on: Tue Nov 16 12:20:43 EST 1999
  
  DTS/Dolby Digital makes sense only when Indian MDs start using ambient sound effects in their films. Most of Indian films do not use ambient sound effects. And IMO this should not be the job of the MD but a separate Sound Editor/Mixer.
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 216.32.18.74) on: Tue Nov 16 13:32:16 EST 1999
  
  Kuruthee Poonal was done is Dolby,
  Kaadalan was done in DTS, In fact Rajni's MAVEERAN was done on 8 track. (Satyam theater installed a special sound system do play this).
  Also, Kamal plays a vital role here, in an interview I think for DD, when asked whether Video and cable affect cinema, he told that people will come to the theaters if we offer something extra, he quoted that western movie theathers have very good sound system and offer dolby surroud etc., he told our theathers should be upgraded,
  , after a while "Speed" was released in Madras,(DEVI) this was the first dolby movie I saw in madras. Then KAMAL's kuruthee punal followed. I think this was recorded in Media artists, Madras, they were the first to get Dolby, currently there are many studios which has dolby or DTS capability.
  Many Telugu, Hindi movies are now in DTS.
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 216.32.18.74) on: Tue Nov 16 13:38:17 EST 1999
  
  Some more:
  Basically, the movie has to have some gas in it for Dolby production, like we cannot make a dolby movie product for famlily subjects (from Visu or Kb etc) .It is not worth it.
  kurthee punal lacked some depth this might due to composers limitation to think in 5 or 8 tracks.
  I am sure Raja can think as he had done a good job in MAVEERAN, "Time" is recorded in Dolby (even the CDs are in Dolby).
  Regarding Arr, he is exploiting it.
  
  Just waiting for 007, this weekend, as per reviews this has been digitally recorded, the trailor itself had amazing quality.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ surf0004.sybase.com) on: Tue Nov 16 14:29:25 EST 1999
  
  RA,
  DTS/Dolby effects can be felt mainly in action movies. In Hollywood, 'Sound effects' itself is a major field. Recording the sound of door closing or the popping of wine bottle's cork are not necessarily the job of say, John Williams. Also, these sound effects people add bass effects and other sounds like for eg, starting of a helicopter or airplane jet engine. I do agree that having a big orchestra makes for a good effect. For that reason alone, classical music will be continued to be used in BGM, inspite of the invasion of rock/jazz etc. You could see rock/jazz/new age in BGM in many Hollywood movies (like Dead Man Walking - featuring NFAK), but in blockbuster movies like Titanic or Star Wars it is always the orchestras that dominate.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ surf0004.sybase.com) on: Tue Nov 16 14:31:09 EST 1999
  
  BTW, Looks like 'pg' has echoed my opinions already.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ surf0004.sybase.com) on: Tue Nov 16 14:57:26 EST 1999
  
  Re: Technical information.
  Check out www.dolby.com and www.tascam.com (makers of popular DAT recoders). If you are using the 16bit DATs then you are not using the full potential of Dolby Digital which offers 24 bit dynamic range using the AC3 algorithm even though it takes only 20bit word length max.
  You can get 24bit DATs now backwarrd compatible with the 16bit tapes.
  
  
• From: pg (@ gate02.merck-medco.com) on: Tue Nov 16 16:05:13 EST 1999
  
  The first movie I saw in Dolby Surround (not DTS or Dolby Digital) was Omar Mukhtar in Alankar.
  
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 216.32.18.74) on: Tue Nov 16 19:24:15 EST 1999
  
  Pg: Omar Mukthar is not a dobly release, are you sure about it.
  
  
• From: karthik vazhkudai (@ 207.78.88.252) on: Tue Nov 16 19:40:38 EST 1999
  
  Omar Mukthar is indeed dolby.
  
  
• From: Jee (@ 193.188.124.233) on: Wed Nov 17 00:53:08 EST 1999
  
  Regarding DTS or Dolby required for KB or Visu movies. I think Mrs.Doubtfire was composed in Dolby surround. How it is possible only in Eng. Movies ? Are producers are not investing money for the best sound system ?
  
  Then "Thiruttu video" cannot be stopped. If Film industry wants people to come to theatre, they should think of alternative. Now Shankar, Mani and others are giving movies with are visually rich.
  
  Adding the DTS or dolby to film sound track, people will FEEL the sound, which is not available with their VCP/R or VCDP and TV.
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 216.32.18.74) on: Wed Nov 17 11:59:21 EST 1999
  
  Karthick: I know omar mukthar is in dolby, did alankar (Release) have dolby at that time, I doubt it, they might have had stereo.
  
  Dolby used to be expensive, but not anymore, we would soon see many movies in Dolby, basically the theaters have to support it, it there are more theaters with Dolby or DTS, producers will come forward to record in Dolby.
  
  Also Dolby is not for RR purpose or Sound effects alone, even the dialouge tracks use them for various purpose. for example in kuruthee punal, we can see how the voice is spread across, they sound will come excatly from the direction where the actor or actors is standing. If it is out side the frame, it will be placed somewhere in the rear tracks.
  this gives a feel that sound is really coming from outside.
  Dolby does not just belong to the MD's alone, a Director can use it at various points, it depends on his and sound engineers creativity.
  
  By the way if you have a dolby digital or analog system at home just watch NFL in Fox using a digital connection ,you will know how the sound is balanced!....perfectly. The sound really moves! , Fox in association with Dobly Labs makes this show very interesting.
  
  
  
  
• From: pg (@ gate02.merck-medco.com) on: Wed Nov 17 13:11:15 EST 1999
  
  About Omar Mukhtar :
  Alankar had Dolby Surround. I think I saw the movie in 1985-86.
  
  Alankar & Devi were the only theatres which had Dolby Surround at that time. Both these theatres used to show only English movies for this reason.
  
  Alankar is no more I think - has been demolished.
  
  
• From: pg (@ gate02.merck-medco.com) on: Wed Nov 17 13:16:13 EST 1999
  
  I have seen two Tamil movies in DTS : ratchagan & uyirE : both had bad mixing. In ratchagan (Devi Paradise) except for the climax scene where the helicopter sound blares from the rear speakers, it is difficult to say that this was a DTS movie.
  
  Uyire was marginally better but not upto international standards. The scene in which SRK stalks Manisha at her house had some good surround effects.
  
  Tamil films are in such an infancy in these things it will take time to catch up.
  
  
  
• From: Jee (@ 193.188.124.247) on: Thu Nov 18 05:06:12 EST 1999
  
  You got a valid point PG ! I agree.
  
  "Tamil films are in such an infancy in these things it will take time to catch up "
  
  But how much time ???
  
  In current situation, none of films released are box-office hit, except the ones by big heroes. No. of films are also less.
  
  Can we expect any producer will invest in Sound systems ?
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 216.32.18.74) on: Thu Nov 18 11:43:26 EST 1999
  
  pg: you are right, TF has to go long long way to go. By far many telugu and hindi film have more DTS than tamil.
  
  as kiru puts is well, western movies have a special group to do the special sound effects, mds do only musical scoring, they do not bother or worry about the sound effects. but our mds including arr, depends more on shouts and screams etc. During good olden days sound effects were only created for special scenes by the Md's, but now hearing a actual score for RR is very rare, it ended with Raja I suppose.
  
  Sure DTS will improve in few years to come.
  
  
• From: Sal (@ ) on: Wed Apr 7 17:47:57 EDT 2004
  
  Does anybody knows what is the cost involved in recording (true recording) in 5.1 and DTS ?
  Thanks
  
  

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