Topic started by RJ Uncomparable!!!! (@ 205.188.209.42) on Sat Oct 5 23:27:06 EDT 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
IMHO, a genius composer of most difficult and consummate melodies is Ravindra Jain in Indian films. Actually the most brilliant structure came from RJ. I don't know if IR has composed melody structures as seen in RJ songs like "Sunayna" & "Yeh Goriyan Only Karthi Raja's "Krishna Krishna" is only one Tmail song of that complex structure. Anyone recognizes any other? Also, RJ gives a lot of ambience in the songs, all songs of Chitchor for example. His Prelueds and interludes are also extremely amazing, especially use of flute is on par with IR's genius. And, therefore I find a comparison with IR worth discussing. (I find that HFindustry ignores RJ's genius because he gave most songs to Yesudas!)
Responses:
- Old responses
- From: Lord LabakuDas (@ 12.162.224.5)
on: Tue Oct 8 15:55:41 EDT 2002
Mr.osai,
u mean i am the racist here?..huh?
Be polite..
I will reveal your true colours(antha phone call matter..:-)) to our newtfmpage makkal..pannatuma?
- From: isaiosai (@ 68.97.168.128)
on: Tue Oct 8 16:18:08 EDT 2002
Lord LabakuDas avargalae, pls. don't. I'll try to be polite too. (not that I'll reveal your Lord's true colours;-))
- From: Neel D (@ 24.98.42.169)
on: Tue Oct 8 21:40:30 EDT 2002
http://www.studio-systems.com/Playback&Fastforward/PlayBack/1988/September/78.htm
http://www.geocities.com/lavlesh/music/latamangeshkar/latamangeshkar.htm
- From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63)
on: Tue Oct 8 23:07:18 EDT 2002
Neel D -
Thanks for the links. You really shouldn't have bothered :-) However, at least "thinking" people can read for themselves and decide who is on the side of fact and who is on the side of falsehood. That's worth the trouble, I suppose.
- From: av (@ 132.206.52.103)
on: Wed Oct 9 20:53:48 EDT 2002
isaiosai - since the goddess hasnt been called since punnagai mannan, snide comments on IR will always proliferate. Again I also mentioned about the unsubstantiated claims in RBs book. Claims like "so and so told me so and so".
And emphasis on stupid gossip more than music.
Raju Bharatans articles always carry that air of false authority. It is a known fact.
As far the raga identification part of his book on LM, oh well! And what about the list of biographies that would support the fact that the LM, AB politics is a myth! Naaz will only diss those.
Naaz's posts always carry an air of unpleasantness and stupidity. Personal attacks too abound in his posts. Its due to lack of valid points, and a lack of tolerance to an opposite opinion. Thats like the attitude of a spoilt kid deprived of his lollipop quota. The contradictions in his post are evident. The factual errors are evn more obvious (he talks about ALL Shammi Kapoor movies having OPN songs. ALL Dev Anand movies with OPN songs. And yes, he prides himself on his "knowledge" of HFM.).
Neel - ensure that you read those links nicely! :-)
Naaz - your reaction and your words like "racist" have tickled me well enough too. Thanks! A million times!
- From: isaiosai (@ 68.97.168.128)
on: Wed Oct 9 23:38:15 EDT 2002
av,
>
LOL!!!!! a good one;-) Leave it there.
Anyway, I'm sure any sensible DFer can make out that you have been very sensible, fair and polite enough inspite of 'you know what':) Take it easy. A humble suggestion...try not to let others hatred and stupid fanaticism get the better of your sensibilities. Ignorance is bliss...certainly in some cases;-) Those links do convey something, right!;-) I think Neel meant it. I know you probably don't want to post further in this thread. Leave it here.
You have been doing great. You are one of the few unbiased posters in the DF. Keep it up!
- From: ;-) (@ 68.97.168.128)
on: Thu Oct 10 00:11:46 EDT 2002
LOL was for "Thats like the attitude of a spoilt kid deprived of his lollipop quota."
- From: Neel D (@ 24.98.42.169)
on: Thu Oct 10 09:27:00 EDT 2002
AV and isaiosai,
The purpose of my posting those links were to show the references to the exsitence of the monopoly, cult worship, sabotage and sibling rivalry. If you two got fixated on one word in the article, there is nothing I can do to help you read further.
>>Thats like the attitude of a spoilt kid deprived of his lollipop quota.<<
I know whom you are referring to with this insidious remark. The remark sure made the cheerleader happy.
- From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63)
on: Thu Oct 10 10:51:56 EDT 2002
Neel D -
What is read in micro terms and what is missed in macro terms - can only show up the reader's (in)abilities.
Here's an example of how one line from my own post in this thread was (mis) read:
"All the Shammi Kapoor and Dev Anand films that were scored by OPN" That's what I said.
Any adequately (english) equipped reader would have no problem in reading the above as:
A sum total of Dev Anand and Shammi Kapoor films scored by OPN.
But this is how it was read:
That OPN was the ONLY (notice that crucial word missing in my original quote) MD who scored for DA and SK films!!
And, apparently, this is proof of my (lack of) HFM knowledge. So be it.
(What it is proof of, as you must surely see, is basic english understanding that is in a shambles.)
The following (from Amazon.com) is a quote from someone who read RBs biography, and had this to say:
Customer Reviews
Avg. Customer Review: 5.0 out of 5 stars
Write an online review and share your thoughts with other customers.
3 of 4 people found the following review helpful:
5 out of 5 stars No Wonder it is out of stock!!, July 1, 1999
Reviewer: basky@rocketmail.com from USA
"If there is anyone who can write a book on Lata Mangeshkar, it is Raju Bharatan.He has been associated with hindi film music for over four decades now.This book gives us an insight on Lata's aura, charisma, her struggle and also little known facts, dispute with Rafi.Read for yourself how different music directors rate her. This is a no-holds-barred, no-punches-pulled account of the most unputdownable performer in the world. A 'must-buy' for all hindi film music lovers."
Now, brace yourself for more denials and misreadings :-)
- From: Ramki (@ 161.150.2.250)
on: Thu Oct 10 12:21:05 EDT 2002
isaiosai
Its difficult to ignore, if the fanatics are present 24 hrs in the respective threads. Sensible posters are definitely a minority in this DF and i appreciate av(r?) for remaining sane
and sensible
- From: Ramki (@ 161.150.2.250)
on: Thu Oct 10 12:21:50 EDT 2002
isaiosai
"Take it easy. A humble suggestion...try not to let others hatred and stupid fanaticism get the better of your sensibilities. Ignorance is bliss...certainly in some cases"
Its difficult to ignore, if the fanatics are present 24 hrs in the respective threads. Sensible posters are definitely a minority in this DF and i appreciate av(r?) for remaining sane
and sensible
- From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63)
on: Thu Oct 10 13:14:55 EDT 2002
Ramki -
I assume (actually, I am quite certain) that I am the one who is being termed a fanatic here. But to aid me in my understanding of the term could you please address the following:
a. How is pointing out a well established and recognised film history fact amount to fanaticism?
b. How is consistent denial of the same historic fact amount to objectivity and good sense?
I am really puzzled about this.
But I agree, wholeheartedly, with this:
I am (and I can speak only for myself) the most nonsensical poster in these forums. It is just the sort of acheivement I've been striving for. And thank you for lauding my efforts.
- From: isaiosai (@ 68.97.168.128)
on: Thu Oct 10 13:46:42 EDT 2002
Ramki,
I'm happy about your open appreciation for avr. Hope it is of some consolation to him. And I'm sure there are many silent (for various reasons) observers who feel the same.
It is unfortunate that an ardent TFM (and music) lover like av has been insulted on many occassions just because of him being a North Indian. Some racism this! And obvious heights of hypocrisy indeed!!!!
Anyway, hope you don't get caught in all this ....;-)
- From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249)
on: Thu Oct 10 14:53:03 EDT 2002
I dont know much about the Hindi film industry. But didn't VJ almost accuse Lata of impairing her career in Hindi films unfairly ?
(Didn't mean to offend anybody's sentiments, just curious).
- From: p (@ 207.188.29.248)
on: Thu Oct 10 15:10:39 EDT 2002
>
donkey monkey voices? SENSIBLE ?? more like the arguments of Naaz & Co. against AVR or vice versa(yeah it is not whether VJ was doomed by Mangeshkar sisters .. it is whether Naaz or AVR )
:(((( Pity even seasoned TFM Posters indulge in this :(((
- From: oops (@ 207.188.29.248)
on: Thu Oct 10 15:11:27 EDT 2002
Ramki (@ 161.150.2.250) on: Fri Jun 7 07:47:00 EDT 2002 says
selfless contributions from these great souls
AMRaja is good example. He was married to jikki when he did music for kalyana parisu and other movies. Even though jikki was a popular singer, he gave her only one song in kalyana parisu and then nilavu.
Compare him to present day MDS who do everything to promote their children(with donkey/monkey voices), siblings and relatives.
-----------------------
donkey monkey voices? SENSIBLE ?? more like the arguments of Naaz & Co. against AVR or vice versa(yeah it is not whether VJ was doomed by Mangeshkar sisters .. it is whether Naaz or AVR )
:(((( Pity even seasoned TFM Posters indulge in this :(((
- From: Lord LabakuDas (@ 12.162.224.5)
on: Thu Oct 10 15:21:02 EDT 2002
I sincerly condemn oops for comparing Bava's voice with donkey's/monkey's..:-)
- From: s0 (@ 163.181.250.2)
on: Thu Oct 10 15:29:13 EDT 2002
kiru: vidiya vidiya ramayanam kettuttu...
- From: Ramki (@ 161.150.2.250)
on: Thu Oct 10 16:50:35 EDT 2002
isaiyosai Im used to all these:)
p i never claimed im a saint, i have my own views and i have the right to voice my opinions.
But i dont do it every day and in every thread.
I make my statement and leave, i dont impose my opinions on others.
- From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63)
on: Thu Oct 10 17:09:14 EDT 2002
P -
"Naaz and Co." pointed out facts, posted relevant links, showed how statements were misread, arguments doing triple somersaults of (il)logic, and well-respected, unbiased and experienced journalists were being dismissed by people with absolutely no authority or publications/credentials to their name.
If this is not constitue a SENSIBLE way of engaging I wonder what is?
For all that, "Naaz and Co." get labelled as "fanatics" and "ignorant".
Some TFM-page wonders never cease.
- From: Nazir (@ 172.146.236.99)
on: Thu Oct 10 19:07:16 EDT 2002
well-respected, unbiased and experienced journalists
ada vere ip kidakkale pola adhaan thaana vandhu thannaiye paaratikk,,paavam paavam:0)
azadum umavum leave poatuttanga pola hehehe
- From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63)
on: Thu Oct 10 19:57:59 EDT 2002
I was referring to Raju Bharatan. Don't understand ordinary english? Or don't you read the contextual posts before posting yourself??
My journalistic career spans only a decade. The person I was mentioning has 40 years of rock solid writing reputation.
And what is your contribution to this discussion besides laughter?
- From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63)
on: Thu Oct 10 20:02:32 EDT 2002
Nazir, please read this, it might help you. It is from the post above.
" "If there is anyone who can write a book on Lata Mangeshkar, it is Raju Bharatan.He has been associated with hindi film music for over four decades now." "
- From: Nazir (@ 172.145.231.93)
on: Thu Oct 10 20:33:23 EDT 2002
Its better to laugh at someone that to be laughed at
- From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249)
on: Thu Oct 10 21:27:27 EDT 2002
sO :) :) :) I guess I was looking for the verdict..Looks like the jury is still divided :)
- From: lots of confusinging (@ 152.163.189.230)
on: Fri Oct 11 00:17:04 EDT 2002
is this thread turning out to be comparison of LM with JIkki? or AM Raja with LM's imaginary husband? what is happenin i say
- From: Madhan (@ 210.212.160.34)
on: Fri Oct 11 03:08:05 EDT 2002
s0 (@ 163.181.250.2) ---> is that you Shankar ?
- From: S (@ 128.107.253.40)
on: Fri Oct 11 04:44:21 EDT 2002
nope...Email me when u get time...
sorry for the digression folks..
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