Home   Forum   Wiki   Notes   Register   FAQ   Sitemap   About Us   Contact Us  

Is IR becoming like balamuralikrishna!!!

Topic started by krishnan (@ uswgne11.uswest.com) on Fri Jun 19 17:58:54 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I have heard , balamurali who started off as a child prodigy and once the favorite had his popularity dwindling, not because of him running out of stuff, but becomimg more & more unpredictable.To be unorthodox once in a while was OK & acceptable by the carnatic lovers but if it becomes more frequent one tends to distant himself from the music lover.I am not questioning his knowledge, but he has ended up becoming quite a experimental man.After hearing to raja's recent albums poonthottam raja is definetely shifting gears by switching to different scales in the same song & using it in vocals.I remember of him using graha bedham in oldies like 'andhi mazhai' but rarely has he implemented it in vocals.No doubt,
this is new to TFM ( barring few exceptions like 'Poonkatrilae' & 'Devan thiru sabai malargalae').
But the fear is this should not sound too discordant for the common man.

---

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: krishnan (@ uswgne11.uswest.com) on: Fri Jun 26 16:26:06 EDT 1998
  
  Using the text book rules of shifting scales in western music is quite not applicable in the case of IR's music.The carnatic ragas like say nattai may it so difficult for one to stick to traditions.One could do shifts in the following ways :
  1. Shift to the relative key.
  2. Choose a bridge chord & jump to a different scale where the bridge is a diatonic of the new scale.
  
  If one were to harmonize ragas like thodi there is no way u can follow the above rules as the major & minor systems are based on just 3 ragas :
  
  S. baranam,keeravani & harikhomboji.
  Would u treat them as chromatic.
  And it is also to escape from these rules & fault finding as these are not described in text books.
  
  
  
  
  
• From: krishnan (@ uswgne11.uswest.com) on: Mon Jun 29 17:33:14 EDT 1998
  
  I heard raja did lot of experimentation in his first ever full length carnatic concert which he did a few years back??.I think raj kumar bharati sang some of the songs.Any of on these songs ??
  
  
• From: twilight_zone (@ ) on: Sat Mar 16 06:34:44 EST 2002
  
  man, this is what i mean when i say,"good old days in DFm in newtfmpage"...where are such lovely DFers now :-). I just read this one page, and there is so much knowledge for free :-)
  
  
• From: Sam (@ 132.235.229.90) on: Sat Mar 16 17:35:18 EST 2002
  
  Sridhar, I would like to point out one simple observation reg Pudhu mapilakku. Based on the melody in the intro and first few lines of pallavi, we can say that the chords are G anb D7. And if I were to do the harmony for the intro, I wud have blindly done it as G in 2nd inversion, and D7 in 1st inversion without the D note.
  
  I listened to Pudhu Mapilakku sometime back, and as far as I remember the harmony in the intro goes somewhat like this.
  Intro:
  D/D/D/D
  B/C/C/B
  G/A/A/G
  
  that is G in root position and 2nd inversion of D7 with no 3rd. [Basically, the harmony singers singing G(lowest pitch) and B notes move onto A and C notes respectively, with the D note singer (who has the highest pitch in the harmony here) staying just on D, not moving anywhere].
  So why this difference? Raja gave a melody to the bass line which is being given by the harmony singer, with bass notes being G and A. Now if raja were to use the harmony that I said I would do, he cannot use the bass notes as G and A, (esp A, the inversions I use wud not allow that). And I think the highest voice staying on D without moving anywhere is to emphasise on this bass line, to bring some attention to it than on the highest note(s).
  
  This is my view on this, if u differ, please explain me why I am wrong. I wud like to learn.
  
  Thanks
  
  
• From: K (@ 63.48.63.144) on: Sat Mar 16 18:50:22 EST 2002
  
  onnume puriyale ulagathile....
  
  
• From: twilight_zone (@ 203.199.247.74) on: Sun Mar 17 04:49:38 EST 2002
  
  dear sam,
  
  Never ever thought "pudhu maapillaikku" had so many intricate details in its making :-). Pls contribute more.
  
  
• From: VR (@ 66.188.201.72) on: Sun Mar 17 13:03:09 EST 2002
  
  IR in a casual dialogue with SPB once said intro to Pudhu Mappillikku was based on "Adho Andha Paravai Pola Aada Vendum"
  
  Hear it on Raajangham
  
  
• From: Deepak (@ 146.235.2.37) on: Sun Mar 17 14:08:34 EST 2002
  
  VR,
  
  It's "Naan Paarthadile..."
  
  
• From: Sam (@ 132.235.18.15) on: Sun Mar 17 23:07:00 EST 2002
  
  K @63.48.63.144, what I said was,
  If I were to harmonize that chord progression (G and D7), , I wud have used D,G,B notes(D in lowest position, and B in highest position) for G chord and F#,A, C notes (F# lowest, and C highest) for D7 chord. And why wud I do that?? Because, then all my three voices would have movement, from one note to the next (D moving to F#, G->A, and B->C. But then I wud have my bass as D and F# (lowest notes), cos there is no other instrument for bass.
  
  But in the song we hear G,B,D (G lowest, D highest) fro G chord, and A,C,D(A lowest, D highest) for D7. Here we see only two voices moving; one from G to A, and the other from B to C, while the third voice stays on D. But then the lowest notes are G and A, and since there is no other bass instrument, this becomes the bass line.
  
  Also, the highest note D is left stationary, why? So as to have more attention on the moving note(s) than on the highest note.Then our ear tends to recognize movement of G to A and B to C better. But then one may ask, instead of moving B onto C initally, why not make B also stationary, ?, then wouldnt the attention on the only moving note (G here) be more? To answer this question we have to keep in mind the whole progression, G/D7/D7/G. We feel a sense of completion when the chord moves from D7 to G in the end (i.e. esp becos of the note C coming down onto B). And for note C to come down onto B, it has to be on C first, and thats why note B moves onto C initially.
  
  One more thing to make the movement clearer, seems like raja took another measure, this time with recording. One of the moving notes is heard in the left ear, and the other movign note in the right ear. U hear the extreme (Highest and lowest notes) in ur left ear, and the note in between these two in the right ear.
  
  Hope I am clearer.
  
  
• From: Sam (@ 132.235.18.15) on: Sun Mar 17 23:25:21 EST 2002
  
  Just one more thing, thought it is interesting. Pudhu map.. starts in Gmajor but in the middle of charanam, theres a chord change to E major as pointed out. It can be seen as: take the relative minor of Gmajor, that is Eminor, and then take the major scale (of the same key) that is Emajor.
  Now see the Ooh la la song (Minasara Kanavu). Song starts in E Minor, but theres a interesting chord in the beggining of charanam to C#minor. And see how this can be seen: E minor is our scale, taking the Major scale (of the same key), it becomes Emajor, and then take the relative minor of Emajor that is C# minor, kind of reverse of Pudhu mapilaku. Does soemone see what I am trying to say?? Neways, sorry for the digression.
  
  
• From: Vj (@ 61.11.76.169) on: Mon Mar 18 06:04:52 EST 2002
  
  clearly confusing.. :D
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Mon Mar 18 13:39:41 EST 2002
  
  sam: please keep posting. interesting and informative.
  
  
• From: VR (@ 66.188.201.72) on: Mon Mar 18 18:58:01 EST 2002
  
  To Deepak
  
  You are right. Thanks
  
  
  

---

List all pages of this thread

---

Back to the Forum

Post comments