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Is music mathematical !!!!!!

Topic started by Kumar (@ ext-3054.rational.com) on Wed Jul 11 20:51:05 EDT 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Now I dont know if I am making any sense in this question... but just thought about this while reading about the 'got milk' thread.. where the discussion is about music going into a cycle..

Music is harmonics. I read somewhere music and
math are the only two universal things. R there
theories behind music.. do they follow rules
which r universal.. can they be mapped to math..

Continuing with my babble.. can they be extra
polated and can we predict the future of music..
can we put the changes in music to a statistical
trend.. ??? on.. and on..

:-)

(ps: if u want to blame me for talking something
which even i dont understand, its all because
of my influence of seeing AI.. makes one think
'out of the box' :-))))) )

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.25.204) on: Wed Feb 27 15:15:26 EST 2002
  
  Swamiji:
  
  The sequencing I have done till date is limited to those that come with the keyboards themselves (eg - PSR 510/610). only 2 days ago I tried interfacing computer with the KB and introduced myself to midi.
  
  Now that you have explained the link between music and math to an extent, would you mind going further and answering the qns I put regarding 'formulae' for the structure of harmony. Whatever knowledge I have about this is highly intuitive and would like to know if there are directives which differentiate between inharmonic and harmonic sounds. Thx
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.25.204) on: Wed Feb 27 15:18:55 EST 2002
  
  aruL :-) Swamiji's explanation does NOT absolve you of an explanation you owe me on perception being mathematical :-)
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Wed Feb 27 15:46:55 EST 2002
  
  MS: oh well. i was planning to write what i know in a coherent form. now since you asked for it (soon), here is what i learnt/think perception is: there are five sensory inputs through which we "perceive" the world around us. the mental "picture" of the world is not the "same" as the physical picture. for a given physical "picture" (i use the double quotes for picture to mean that it is not necessarily a picture; it could be smell, sound, touch or taste.) there could be many mental pictures. during our infancy, we decipher the relationship between the one mental "picture" that truly represents the physical world and the physical "picture". at later stages in life, we use these learnt relationships to "perceice" the world around us. so perception, in mathematical terms, boils down to this: in a one (physical world) to many (mental world) mapping, we use our memory to choose one mapping that best describes the relationship between the the two. this is perception.
  
  bringing this "down" :-) to more mundane language, that's the reason why it's difficult for people who grow up in a very monophonic environment to like western music. this could also be the reason why people who were born during the glorious days of IR to like lesser composers :-)))))
  
  
• From: Krishnamurthy (@ 198.102.112.18) on: Wed Feb 27 15:49:14 EST 2002
  
  Thanks Arul.
  MS: I wish I knew the formula! In music there is consonance and dissonance as against harmony / inharmony. Even highly dissonant close notes that produce "beats" is acceptable. Those are called tension notes.
  You are seeking a mathematical explanation to understand harmony. Harmony (of sound) in effect involves combination of waves. A major chord with major-minor interval have certain ratios of frequencies (should be available in basic physics textbook). It is these ratios that decide consonance and dissonance (and for which you can use mathematics to define a structure - that is beyond my needs to understand music). For example a perfect 5th (pa in indian notation) divides an octave in 2:3 frequency ratio. This was our own choice. We could have devised another ratio if we wanted to.
  Heres something I found: http://www.swets.nl/jnmr/vol29_4.html
  If you want to go deeper into the subject, you have a big field open in front of u. But if you ask me if I can use an empirical, or abstract formula to produce a composition - I simply dont know.
  
  
  
• From: Sam (@ 132.235.18.132) on: Thu Feb 28 02:55:52 EST 2002
  
  Kindly check this web site,
  
  http://www.geocities.com/s_emery/
  
  Esp the sections from the mixed symmetrical chords section in the left frame, the author shows some calculations. I haven't gone thru the stuff in detail, looks like it takes time and energy. May be someone here cud simplify the stuff and explain.
  
  regards
  
  
• From: eden (@ 210.214.4.71) on: Thu Feb 28 04:05:38 EST 2002
  
  Are emotions mathematical too? I don't think music is 100% mathematical since our brain is supposed to process not just electrical signals but also very complex chemical communications...yes, there may be definite rules governing it otherwise insanity can happen easily...but still how can we then explain the differences in sensation to the same stimuli (i.e. in different people?)
  
  

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